Dinesh Kumar is an internationally known water resources management specialist who has spent about thirty five years studying Indian and global water systems.
This water systems masterclass podcast was special as it was my first time I hired a studio to shoot a podcast, thanks to Farmart who graciously agreed to support the production of the podcast.
I am looking for podcast sponsors for upcoming ambitious podcasts I have in mind. If you want to support, do reach out.
Water is a subject that’s always with us, yet its complexity often eludes our grasp. My appreciation for water systems has grown immensely through years of working at the intersection of food and agriculture systems. This podcast conversation with Dinesh gave me a deep appreciation of system thinking principles that apply in the context of water systems.
What made the conversation deeply fascinating was that we delved into many of the cobwebs that had been clogging in my head. Heck! I also discovered that hydro schizophrenia exists!
Dinesh beautifully demolished many of the unnecessary binaries that often dominate water debates—centralized versus decentralized, surface versus groundwater, rainfed versus irrigated, tanks vs ground water—and why these compartments often hinder more than they help.
He also delved into why Paddy deserves a deeper relook for its crucial role in Indian Agriculture and why Maharashtra and Tamizh Nadu are better suited to grow sugar cane. We explored a lot of policy nuances ( with a surprising discovery of how agency problems clog water systems as well) that could help India’s water ministry address a lot of governance challenges in its ambitious goal to provide clean drinking water to every Indian household while ensuring farmers have the adequate amount of irrigation to have a prosperous agrarian future.
Dinesh brings a refreshing clarity to many vexing complex water topics focusing on the underlying insight where water management is placed in a spectrum of interlocking systems, not a set of silos, and that everyone has a role—from the state bureaucracy to civil society, from local communities to individual farmers.
We had a master class discussion on systems thinking principles that apply in the context of water systems. I have listed down the key principles we delved into in this podcast.
Water Systems’ Systems Thinking Principles Explored in the Podcast:
The role of Committed and Uncommitted Flows.
The role of Open and Closed Basins.
Interaction between Surface-level Irrigation and Ground Level Irrigation
Increase in Gross Irrigated Area doesn’t mean decrease in dependence on monsoon. It rather implies increase in dependence!
Reliability of rainfall is much higher in a high-rainfall area while the reliability of rainfall is much lower in a low-rainfall area. Those areas which have rainfall occurring in more rainy days have lower variability in rainy days. Those areas which receive rain in fewer showers have more variability in rainy days.
We confuse market instruments with privatization. We start with water rights before we promote markets.
Water is a social good, economic good and environmental good simultaneously.
We can’t talk about water without talking about electricity. We can’t talk about electricity without talking about water. You can price electricity based on consumption while providing subsidy.
The moment you talk about water, it is politics!
Water Consumption will change through behavioral change.
If you are using drip irrigation to reduce percolation losses in shallow water table areas, you are not reducing any losses. You are simply shifting the water.
Resource Management and Resource Allocation Go Together. We need to distinguish between Resource Management, Resource Allocation and Resource Appropriation.
Agency Problems in Irrigation: Resource Agency and Service Agency have to be kept separate. The same team cannot do Resource Allocation and Resource Management simultaneously for there is a conflict of interest.
Crops Don’t Distinguish Between Ground Water and Surface Water
A Quick Summary of the Conversation Trajectory:
01:29 Dinesh’s accidental foray into studying water systems
11:54 The civil society paradigm that favors decentralized water systems vis-a-vis the mainstream water bureaucracy that favors centralized water systems.
18:22 Too much of centralization becomes a problem and too much of decentralization also becomes a problem.
20:57 A Case Study of Saurashtra and Decentralized Water Management
24:57 Systems Thinking in Water Systems
26:07 Understanding committed and uncommitted flows.
28:35 Open Basins and Closed Basins
31:07 How do you understand the balance between surface water irrigation and ground water irrigation?
33:46 A Case Study of Narmada and Wells
35:47 A Case Study of Telangana and Lift Irrigation
37:00 Hydroschizophrenia
39:55 How do we measure irrigation progress in our country?
42:40 The false notion of dependence on monsoon
45:00 The false binary categorization between rainfed and irrigated regions
51:00 Policy Universe’s binary notions of Irrigated and Rainfed regions
52:14 Definition of Rainfed Region is Flawed.
54:35 How did India become the world’s largest user of groundwater? Did Green Revolution cause it?
58:17 We have increased our dependence on water.
59:21 Whenever some one purchases a piece of land, ground water rights are de facto rights. The role of water markets
1:00:42 How is privatization different from promoting markets?
1:01: 35 Unbridled Informal ground water markets in an institutional vacuum.
1:04:00 Is Water a social good or an economic good? How to prioritize between various lenses of water? Why is public and private good problematic?
1:09:43 The dilemma between expanding access and equity in water systems. When does equity become compromised? What about surface irrigation?
1:14:10 The Nexus Between Water and Electricity
1:14:59 Energy Metering to Save Groundwater. The case of West Bengal
1:17:00 Pricing Electricity based on Consumption.
1:19:21 River Basin as a Unit of Water Planning Vs Agroecology as an Unit of Planning
1:22:48 Drinking Water Security for humans and animals
1:27:00 Reservoir based schemes instead of single village water schemes. How to prioritize between drinking water and irrigation in national water policy?
1:29:09 The problem of quality in water irrigation. Resource Management to make Jal Jeevan Mission successful. Why Water Supply Department Don’t Own Reservoirs?
1:31:30 Why are ground water levels rising in Jodhpur?
1:33:04 Food security and nutritional insecurity
1:36:57 Why do Farmers Grow Jowar and Paddy and the Myths around Climate Resilient Agriculture. Why is the water foot print of Paddy slight lower than Jowar?
1:41:04 The role of Land in Food Security: The case of Jowar
1:42:30 Understanding water productivity of Paddy and Sugarcane
1:44:30 The Myth About Micro Irrigation Saving Water In Indian Agriculture
1:45:10 The Missing Link In Micro Irrigation in Israel.
1:46:02 Paying for Water in Agriculture. The problem of over irrigation.
1:49:46 The importance of reducing non-beneficial evaporation. Why have orchards in arid regions become the biggest consumer of micro irrigation tools?
1:52:27 Jevons Paradox in Micro Irrigation and how to address rebound effect?
1:54:54 What can India Learn from Other Countries’ Water Systems (save Israel)?
1:59:50 Banning Borewell Machines
2:00:03 What can India Learn from Netherlands in Non Point Pollution Control Method? Point Pollution Vs Diffuse Pollution in Nitrate Pollution Control
2:02:40 We’ve reached saturation point in micro irrigation in India.
2:03:57 Dinesh Reflects On His Learning Journey Further
2:07:22 Can Traditional Water Systems Knowledge Manage Today’s Challenges?
2:08:22 Why Tank Irrigation Has Declined In Indian Agriculture? How Ground Water Has Altered Tank Water Hydrology
2:11:06 The prohibitive costs of well irrigation. The role of well irrigation in the decline of tanks
2:13:07 Revisiting Civil Societies Vs Water Bureaucracy debate in the context of Indian Knowledge Systems
2:14:53 Who controls the hydrology of tank systems? Elite Capture in Water Systems
2:16:59 Emerging Technologies in Water Systems
2:18:08 Climate Change and Water Systems
2:22:21 Closing Thoughts on Future of Indian Agriculture
Articles Referred in the Podcast:
Dinesh Kumar’s EPW Article on Chasing a Mirage: Water Harvesting and Artificial Recharge in Naturally Water-Scarce Regions
Dinesh Kumar’s LinkedIn Article on Monsoon Matters Too Much Now in Indian Agriculture
Prof. P.R. Pisharoty’s famous paper on Indian Monsoon
Dinesh Kumar’s LinkedIn article on Jowar
The nature of water is such that it breaks boundaries and I experienced the liberating feeling when some of the previously held categories were challenged. It truly changed my mind! I hope you enjoy this podcast as much as I did:)
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